Employers and employees seek new forms of co-determination

A 'relationship' with your employer

Marc Borggreven and Juno Wilbrink concluded the previous interview with a question for Justine Feitsma and Janet Visbeen: how do you ensure – despite the different interests – that you as employer and employee continue working together in the organization?

Visbeen: 'I see it a bit like a relationship you enter into. There must be something in it for yourself, but you also want to work it out with the other party. Looking at the landscape of trade unions and works councils is always constructive. At least at PwC. Usually you are not opposing each other, but both parties want clarity. It is often portrayed as polarizing. Of course it can be abrasive, but one party cannot do without the other.'

As chairman of CNV Youth, Feitsma regularly hears that organizations and employees are having discussions about agreements that are not set in stone, such as the work-life balance. ‘There has to be understanding for each other's circumstances, but it can indeed be abrasive. For example, we regularly hear from young people that there are problems with bereavement leave. Bereavement leave is very important. The need differs per individual. The goal is to continue work in a healthy way, but at one point we heard from young people ,who lost someone recently, saying that they were received messages by their employer, asking when they would come back to work. That was no exception, it happened quite often.’

Visbeen finds this highly inappropriate, but also understands that an organization must at some point know where it stands. ‘I see that people take a lot of private things with them to work. Other stressors often play a role in the background of burnout symptoms, such as a first child or a death. As an employer, it is sometimes difficult to decide what you can and cannot ask for in a private matter. If someone hasn't returned after three weeks, where do you draw the line? That is a balance that organizations have to find with their employees.’

The future of young people within the union

Young people therefore seem to have a greater need for flexibility and customization. But what does this mean for the role of trade unions? In the first interview, Raymond Welmers was critical of the representation of young people within trade unions. Feitsma acknowledges that problem. 'As a trade union, we also stand up for the interests of young employees. We are always looking for new forms to appeal to this group even more. The collective sense of the union may feel at odds with the trend of individualism among young generations. We try to respond to this by offering more individual services, such as career coaching. Moreover, I believe in the power of the union, because together you will always be stronger.'

Feitsma: ‘Wherever that is important, is within organizations themselves. There we see that young people are poorly represented in works councils; they are aging enormously! While that is the place where you have a say and can influence your working environment. We do see that young people want to express themselves in different ways. It is then a matter of looking for a new way of involving young people in a works council.'

Visbeen: 'In my view, young people find it annoying to identify with one 'group'. The need to move inside and outside the organization in these kinds of networks is diminishing. As an employer, I think it is important that young people make their voices heard in order to get a supported image.'

Feitsma: 'Older people on the works council often say that they are young at heart. But it does not work like that. We must also make the voice of young people heard! I think that a works council should be more visible to young people in some areas. That could be better.’